tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post2439664042629047185..comments2024-03-18T03:28:36.581-04:00Comments on Shrink Rap: Suicide Rates Shoot Up in YouthsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-23247639628106797642007-09-11T19:50:00.000-04:002007-09-11T19:50:00.000-04:00So there! Actually I think we can use Republicans...So there! Actually I think we can use Republicans in many situations, e.g the response to 9/11. I think you would be misinformed to think however that the black box warning represented the best scientific and public health policy per the FDA and that you are defending that. It represented their best mandarin response to outrageous intrusion by the committe chairman Joe Barton, R. Tx, leaving guideposts in the best retreat they could write.a psychiatrist who learned from veteranshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00347313804041291393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-44457304836294393542007-09-11T18:29:00.000-04:002007-09-11T18:29:00.000-04:00To "Psychiatrist who learned from veterans:" I'm t...To "Psychiatrist who learned from veterans:" <BR/><BR/>I'm the anonymous who "philosophically instructed" that you can't assume causality with this kind of association. <BR/><BR/>I'm not a Republican. I'm not anti-science, or anti-humanism. I'm a progressive, and I'm pro-rationality, and pro-science...to the extent that I have to urge caution - extreme caution - with the kind of interpretation Roy is making here. Roy understands that. I'm not sure why you don't.<BR/><BR/>If anything is anti-science it's making careless assumptions when interpretating data, and drawing conclusions far beyond what the evidence can bear. That's an abuse of science, and it ruins scientists' credibility in the public mind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-69454903009228797022007-09-11T00:30:00.000-04:002007-09-11T00:30:00.000-04:00'Freakonomics' has an article about how abortion h...'Freakonomics' has an article about how abortion has increased the relative number of conservative voters. The FDA black box is at the behest of Joe Barton R, TX who controlled FDA appropriations until last year and who, before bellowing that he wanted an answer to the suicide danger of antidepressants, had cut off funding to the office an FDA official who had the temerity to testify for Pfizer over a suicide case. It's only sporting, but I'll admit to being at a loss for adjectives, 'antiRennaisance, antihumanism, antiscience' do come to mind also, that anonymous, dare I say Republicans, philosophically instruct, 'You can't assume causality with this kind of association.'a psychiatrist who learned from veteranshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00347313804041291393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-48526373376461972392007-09-09T20:56:00.000-04:002007-09-09T20:56:00.000-04:00Rach, good bet it was none of us in a Porsche SUV....Rach, good bet it was none of us in a Porsche SUV. Sorry about the Podcast glitch, Roy had an unexpectedly hectic weekend and he puts them up, there are a few already made. We got some feedback from folks who weren't commenting because they used to do so anonymously. It's a re-test drive.<BR/>Please, Anonymous Commenters, pick a handle to sign at the bottom of your posts so we can follow who you are. If it gets troublesome, we may stop.Dinahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09227988351623862689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-57879865253919084752007-09-09T20:22:00.000-04:002007-09-09T20:22:00.000-04:003 things:1. you're using anonymous comments on the...3 things:<BR/><BR/>1. you're using anonymous comments on the blog again? huh?<BR/>2. what happened with the Sunday podcasts? I always look forward to my monday morning workout so i can listen to you guys.<BR/>3. funny random thing - i saw a porsche SUV today with the license plate "SHRINK"... I'm pretty sure it wasn't one of you three.Rachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11897760883997811787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-22276850251064692722007-09-08T23:23:00.000-04:002007-09-08T23:23:00.000-04:00The first anonymous is right, association does not...The first anonymous is right, association does not prove cause and effect. After all, I think the bee population also started to plummet after the black box warnings were added.<BR/><BR/>However, in this situation, the numbers and multiple lines of evidence are starting to point strongly in this direction. For now, let's just say the Black Box is "a person of interest."<BR/><BR/>Responding to the 2nd anon, the <A HREF="http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/2003/ANS01256.html" REL="nofollow">initial FDA report</A> actually came out in October 2003. In <A HREF="http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/04/briefing/4006b1.htm" REL="nofollow">February of 2004</A>, the first FDA Advisory Committee meeting on the topic was held.<BR/><BR/>In <A HREF="http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/04/briefing/2004-4065b1.htm" REL="nofollow">September of 2004</A>, the second meeting was held.<BR/><BR/>So, the timing of the increase in suicides is consistent with a beginning reduction in antidepressant prescriptions starting in late 2003, initiated by the 10/27/2003 FDA report.Royhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08735111026336537653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-89002298816931176632007-09-08T21:51:00.000-04:002007-09-08T21:51:00.000-04:00If I am correct the black box warning came about i...If I am correct the black box warning came about in Oct.<BR/>2004.<BR/>So is everyone claiming in 10 weeks everyone decided to kill themselves.<BR/>Something else was going on here!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-30974405560809328802007-09-08T15:57:00.000-04:002007-09-08T15:57:00.000-04:00You're right about it being speculation. You can't...You're right about it being speculation. You can't assume causality with this kind of association. It's just facile to show a blip in the epidemiological data in a given year, and then say "hey! x happened that year, too! therefore, x causes y." <BR/><BR/>Compared to controlled, randomized studies, this kind of data is not very meaningful, only suggestive that further investigation is needed. <BR/><BR/>e.g. Even if we could show that the increased suicides were among kids who were not receiving antidepressants, you still need to know what happened to the rates supportive therapy. Was antidepressant treatement being replaced with anything, or were these kids just dropped out of treatment altogether?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-40391691886386435692007-09-08T06:03:00.000-04:002007-09-08T06:03:00.000-04:00Oh, crap. (the harm done, not your post.)Oh, crap. (the harm done, not your post.)Sarebearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09208596053319110470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-46442472599561402482007-09-08T05:32:00.000-04:002007-09-08T05:32:00.000-04:00My p-doc reckons he has had one clear case of suic...My p-doc reckons he has had one clear case of suicidality appearing with an AD where it didn't exist before - patient was an adult male < 40. <BR/><BR/>He also said that he has lost count of how many hundreds of patients of all ages have not killed themselves, primarily because of taking an AD.<BR/><BR/>The FDA took what looked like the easy way on this one, and the figures are now proving them wrong.jcathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03736961961261409218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-42712340765224048142007-09-07T21:19:00.000-04:002007-09-07T21:19:00.000-04:00Holy tragic irony, Batman.Holy tragic irony, Batman.Gerbilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908487212760713496noreply@blogger.com