Comments on Shrink Rap: I Have Bipolar Disorder. Can I be a Doctor?

I am sure the above poster can find something to d...

2011-12-06T13:05:10.999-05:00

I am sure the above poster can find something to do with her old degree. Good luck with everything. I think we test ourselves with taking on too much. Set ourselves up for disappointment. I am going for an advance degree but I have to not go for the most competitive.

Depends. Many clinicians explain Bipolar Disorder...

2011-10-01T22:21:17.822-04:00

Depends. Many clinicians explain Bipolar Disorder as a SPECTRUM.

Three months after I graduated with a PhD in Molecular Genetics and was starting my first after grad school job as a postdoctoral research fellow, I "seized." My diagnosis was changed from garden variety depression to a bipolar spectrum disorder (BPII). I was put on massive doses of drugs to be stabilized. Unfortunately, I spiraled down and lost my academic future in science (and how many years does it take to get a PhD?).

Almost three years later, I am about to begin an accelerated bachelor of science in nursing program. I am concerned about maintaining optimal mental health. Adding another wrinkle, my husband and I would like to try to conceive (my age requires us to try, now or never).

This diagnosis trounced my self-confidence. Bipolar does not go away. I must remain forever vigilant. And there is a tremendous amount of stigma about mental illness. I am still in mourning over my obliterated science career and this diagnosis that hangs like a loose noose around my neck.

Maybe try veterinary school - not so stressful, vo...

2011-09-12T00:11:13.313-04:00

Maybe try veterinary school - not so stressful, voluntary residencies so 4 or 5 yrs total, few overnighters and you get to pet some great animals. I was diagnosed Bipo 1 18m ago at 61 after a very stressful time. Two weeks later survived a 7 day self-induced coma.
Gaduated at 41 after yrs of failures but it would have been tougher on the drugs still VMD is a Dr - so go for it.

Part II I started my job after taking a 6 wk res...

2011-09-07T10:22:19.225-04:00

Part II

I started my job after taking a 6 wk research course, during which I became progressively withdrawn and down. I failed the statistics class just because I couldn't summon the energy to finish the final exam (I did 2/3 of it). I have the ideal job in my old department where I know everyone and the hospital and people are familiar, my schedule is just what I want, although it's an academic institution there is no pressure to do research or get grants as I have a purely clinical position. I do have 4 weeks on service each year where I do that blasted home phone call 24/7 this time from residents staffing consults, and those weeks totally screw me up for about a month after (partly the sleep dep, partly because I have to reduce my seroquel dose to be able to wake up at night). I have chronically low self confidence but am told repeatedly how much people think of me, that I have a gift for interacting with children, etc. I have made a few important diagnoses in the past couple years that other people have missed. Nevertheless, and I'm sure other depressed people can understand, I think I am the worst person in the world.

Anyway the depression that started just before my job began never let up. It became chronic, waxing and waning in no pattern. I've been on a ton of meds, been told by well-meaning people that I'm on too many meds. I spoke with a successful bipolar doctor at another local hospital (who I met through her book about hypergraphia), she referred me to a trusted colleague, who said I was "NOS" and didn't offer me and my doctor any concrete specific advice (just a very long list of med options, some of which we had not heard of!!!). That was a year ago. Since then I have been limping along. The time I spend with my patients is the only bright spot in this whole mess. When I am with the kids, there is a point to kmy existence, and in fact most importantly I forget about myself because it is all about them. I can't concentrate for too long, have low energy,constant migraines, blah blah. I got so epicallly behind on my clinic notes that 1 month ago I was taken aside and given 2 months to finish them, without clnics. I am not suspended, I'm still getting paid, everyone wants me back, etc. But this sent me into a downward spiral. To me this is failure, no matter now irrational that seems. I spent the first month crying and not sleeping and not getting notes done, of course. Now I have begun to get some intruding manic type symptoms. I did get some notes done, though! Anyway my brain is only getting worse. My doctor and the psych at our office of clinician support want me to take a leave of absence . We are going to discuss it today. I think at this point I have to or I won't get better. But I don't know if I can come back and do the same thing or not. My mother always tells me, "no one is indispensable" and she's right. But I am pretty sub specialized, one of probably only 50 or so people in the country who do what I do. That doesn't mean anybody actually needs me, especially if I am going to go crazy every 5 minutes. I don't know what else I would do for a living if I didn't do this. It seems to me my life would be worthless if I could not do my job. The spectre of utter failure would haunt me wherever I went. And I would think of my little patients from time to time and weep. But they deserve better than me.

Anyway this was too long. I just wanted to put this in because someone suggested that a bipolar person could just "try and see" how med school and residency went, but I would not advise it. I had no way of knowing ahead of time, but if you have that benefit, try to spare yourself the suffering. There are other ways to help people.

I started my job after taking a 6 wk research cour...

2011-09-07T10:19:01.959-04:00

I started my job after taking a 6 wk research course, during which I became progressively withdrawn and down. I failed the statistics class just because I couldn't summon the energy to finish the final exam (I did 2/3 of it). I have the ideal job in my old department where I know everyone and the hospital and people are familiar, my schedule is just what I want, although it's an academic institution there is no pressure to do research or get grants as I have a purely clinical position. I do have 4 weeks on service each year where I do that blasted home phone call 24/7 this time from residents staffing consults, and those weeks totally screw me up for about a month after (partly the sleep dep, partly because I have to reduce my seroquel dose to be able to wake up at night). I have chronically low self confidence but am told repeatedly how much people think of me, that I have a gift for interacting with children, etc. I have made a few important diagnoses in the past couple years that other people have missed. Nevertheless, and I'm sure other depressed people can understand, I think I am the worst person in the world.

Anyway the depression that started just before my job began never let up. It became chronic, waxing and waning in no pattern. I've been on a ton of meds, been told by well-meaning people that I'm on too many meds. I spoke with a successful bipolar doctor at another local hospital (who I met through her book about hypergraphia), she referred me to a trusted colleague, who said I was "NOS" and didn't offer me and my doctor any concrete specific advice (just a very long list of med options, some of which we had not heard of!!!). That was a year ago. Since then I have been limping along. The time I spend with my patients is the only bright spot in this whole mess. When I am with the kids, there is a point to kmy existence, and in fact most importantly I forget about myself because it is all about them. I can't concentrate for too long, have low energy,constant migraines, blah blah. I got so epicallly behind on my clinic notes that 1 month ago I was taken aside and given 2 months to finish them, without clnics. I am not suspended, I'm still getting paid, everyone wants me back, etc. But this sent me into a downward spiral. To me this is failure, no matter now irrational that seems. I spent the first month crying and not sleeping and not getting notes done, of course. Now I have begun to get some intruding manic type symptoms. I did get some notes done, though! Anyway my brain is only getting worse. My doctor and the psych at our office of clinician support want me to take a leave of absence . We are going to discuss it today. I think at this point I have to or I won't get better. But I don't know if I can come back and do the same thing or not. My mother always tells me, "no one is indispensable" and she's right. But I am pretty sub specialized, one of probably only 50 or so people in the country who do what I do. That doesn't mean anybody actually needs me, especially if I am going to go crazy every 5 minutes. I don't know what else I would do for a living if I didn't do this. It seems to me my life would be worthless if I could not do my job. The spectre of utter failure would haunt me wherever I went. And I would think of my little patients from time to time and weep. But they deserve better than me.

Anyway this was too long. I just wanted to put this in because someone suggested that a bipolar person could just "try and see" how med school and residency went, but I would not advise it. I had no way of knowing ahead of time, but if you have that benefit, try to spare yourself the suffering. There are other ways to help people.

I am a physician with bipolar disorder. I was onl...

2011-08-02T21:14:53.842-04:00

I am a physician with bipolar disorder. I was only diagnosed after I had been in practice some years. I was in a surgical residency but left 1 1/2 years shy of finishing...this was due to children, not bipolar. But I certainly noticed the effects of sleep deprivation on my moods, and I had my suspicions of the diagnosis before then. Now, I have a full time practice, nasty divorce proceedings, and nasty teenagers. Most important of all, I have a supportive psychiatrist who follows me closely, and has kept me from being admitted several times. So, as many have commented, you can be a doctor and be bipolar...everyone is different, and you just don't know until you try!

I would tell anyone with this disorder who is cons...

2011-02-25T23:04:53.947-05:00

I would tell anyone with this disorder who is considering becoming a physician to think carefully and be honest about their individual strengths and weaknesses, as well as what type of work they are interested in doing before choosing a career path. This is the same advice I would give to any college student.

The issues faced by peoples with bipolar disorder are as diverse as the issues faced by all people.

Hi I am a second year resident in General Surgery...

2011-01-28T13:47:31.572-05:00

Hi

I am a second year resident in General Surgery and suffer from bipolar disorder. I had only a single episode in my life (about 2 years ago) and I succeeded in completing my medical doctorate.

I am doing extremely well in residency and do not feel it has affected my cognition or my resiliency towards difficult patients, attendings, collegues...

I think if you want to become a medical student, you need to have excellent grades and a passion for the field.

I am a doctor. I want to specialize in surgery. I ...

2010-12-17T09:48:49.598-05:00

I am a doctor.
I want to specialize in surgery.
I have been bipo for as long as I can remember. I had a serious breakdown during my 3rd year.
I was booked off and went back to work.

I am a really good doctor.
My bipolar has made it really hard. I was booked off again. I missed shifts because I couldn't look after my patient - I was not mentally capable and because I have severe psychosomatic symptoms, I was physically not capable either.

I had to disclose to my consultants and HOD when I had tp be admitted. Since then most of them have little faith or respect in me.

I have put every effort possible into getting better and my improvement is truly incredible.
I am an even better doctor. My clinical skills are better than my peers. I work harder than them and my patients improve except for the those with fatal injuries.
My soul is a healer, but haven't had teaching. I just care for my patients and it helps them too.
I will never become a doctor who doesn't care and treats only physical problems, so I take on a lot of emotional stress. I also have the joy when they get better and the honour of thank you's.

I work in a specialized trauma unit. My patients are the most severely injured. At times I am resuscitating up to 9 patients in a resource limited environment. It is extremely busy. I always stay in control and save patients on the brink of dying.

I do many night shifts. my schedule has absolutely no normal routine.
We know that sleep is one of the most crucial elements of managing bipolar. I have no sleep pattern at all and have to rely on meds to rest. sometimes I have only 6 hours off between night shifts, so I can't use meds.
Somehow I don't make mistakes.

It is incredibly hard. I have to do my job whatever the mood. It is terrifying to not know how what state I will be in. I feel better at work. I do everything for my patients, but I am suffering.
My state of mind out of work is uncontrollable, I barely function and ,my quality of life is non-existant. I have little left for me and I end up neglecting me.

I am leaving my trauma department due to my bipolar. I think the problem is the night shifts.
I may not be able to become the great surgeon I have the potential to be. If it means I will not be stable, I cannot risk the possibility of mismanaging patients. and I can't live my life perpetually unstable and alone.

You can't look after anyone if you don't look after yourself.

I'm very well when working only during the day, but I have to give up my dream of being a surgeon beacuse of the effect sleep disturbance has.

People who are bipolar can be great doctors (maybe not if it is severe.) The limiting factors must be carefully considered, for your own health and your patients. I may not be a surgeon, but I am a good doc - that is what is rewarding.

Just a niggle: actually, Kay Redfield Jamison is...

2010-10-14T00:47:39.235-04:00

Just a niggle: actually, Kay Redfield Jamison *is* a doctor (PHD, not MD), and a Professor of Psychiatry to boot. So I think the story of her life and career is definitely relevant to this post.

I know students (medical, psychology, nursing and other fields) with psychiatric disorders, and like Dinah said, it really depends on a multitude of factors, not just the degree being pursued - e.g. the severity of the disorder, how well it is managed, and the kind of academic support in place.

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As a current medical school applicant, I can add t...

2010-10-10T23:12:49.918-04:00

As a current medical school applicant, I can add that most (all?) medical schools have you sign off that you meet what they call "technical standards." It's a pretty long list of things like motor function sufficient to perform a physical exam. There's also a mental health one along the lines of has the emotional stability to fully use intellectual capabilities and can function under physically and mentally stressful workloads.

Here's an example:
http://www.einstein.yu.edu/admissions/page.aspx?id=9058

Oh, my, I completely missed the question here! I&...

2010-10-10T11:29:16.490-04:00

Oh, my, I completely missed the question here! I'm not aware of anything specific on a med school application that ask about psychiatric or medical disorders--- maybe the med student readers would know? It would seem tremendously discriminatory, many illnesses are disabling, not just bipolar disorder, but major depression can be disabling, schizophrenia, panic attacks, OCD...and Diabetes can be tremendously troublesome...med student holding the heart during a long surgery passes out from hypoglycemia....what about seizure disorder? Or colitis (sorry, I gotta run now)...

Licensing boards do ask if you have a mental illness that interferes with your ability to practice. My guess is that most doctors who see psychiatrists check off the "no" box.

I don't know what the person asking the questi...

2010-10-10T00:23:33.278-04:00

I don't know what the person asking the question wrote. When I read the post title though, that's not at all how I interpreted the question. I assumed they wanted to know if the diagnosis would need to be disclosed and if that would exclude them from being admitted to medical school, residency, etc.

That's why the comparison with diabetes always annoys me at least. Stigma is not insignificant. I have no idea if anyone asks about psych histories and what they do with that information if they do. I think it's a legitimate (and answerable) question.

Also, Kay Jamison (aside from not being a doctor) had quite an extensive support system. How much can someone (reasonably) count on being able to have that in a healthcare setting?

Can you be a doctor and NOT be bipolar?

2010-10-09T15:52:19.702-04:00

Can you be a doctor and NOT be bipolar?

Thank you for this post! I'm starting medici...

2010-10-09T02:12:53.885-04:00

Thank you for this post!

I'm starting medicine next year and I am determined to manage my mental illness as best I can so that I'm able to cope with the demands of school and life as a doctor. I've been through a lot to get to this point that I'm well enough to even attempt this, so I'm beating away the self-doubt and just trusting that I can do this. I know it will be harder for me than for others that aren't dealing with mental health issues, but it will make my achievements that much sweeter for me personally.

Hopefully 12 months from now I am still looking at things just as positively. It is going to be an awesome adventure that is hopefully not interrupted by the demons of mental illness.

Katie, Didn't mean to be flippant but there is...

2010-10-08T20:46:23.827-04:00

Katie,
Didn't mean to be flippant but there is no yes or no answer. The illness expresses itself differently in different people and people deal with it differently. Some people with bipolar disorder can become doctors, and some people without bipolar disorder can't.

I just bought
Just like someone without mental illness
by Mark Vonnegut, M.D.

In my state you will have to answer if you have be...

2010-10-08T11:15:22.997-04:00

In my state you will have to answer if you have been treated for bipolar disorder, etc when you get your medical license. So, if you've got that label or diagnosis, and you're honest about it, you very well could be screwed.

Why not? These people did. http://pn.psychiatr...

2010-10-06T13:29:12.172-04:00

Why not? These people did.

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/36/14/11.full

Mental illness occurs in all facets of society and some doctors (and medical students) are mentally ill just a some doctors have other illnesses just as some teachers or brick layers have mental illness or other illnesses. We all have challenges of some kind and these can give those who wish to be caregivers unique strengths and capacity for empathy.

I heard Suzanne Vogel-Scibilia, former NAMI president and bipolar since the age of 15, speak about this and she told of actively experiencing her mental illness and seeing a person that she didn’t know whether they were real or not during training/working on a ward. Fortunately she was able to channel her difficulties (jumping in a fountain one day, being a caring doctor the next). She also found ways for her and her patients to stay safe. She was, in a way, bright, unique and maybe someone you’d consider a little eccentric. I would say she was delightful in her eccentricities—a true joy to listen to and someone who loved knowledge, had a great sense of humor about herself, life and her illness. Part of her charm is that she didn’t see her illness as something horrible…just something which made her have certain quirks or tendencies—some of them even good perhaps.

My suggestion: If you want to be a doctor—whether or not you have a mental illness—try and be one. What do you have to lose? If it doesn’t work out you can always become a lawyer and sue a doctor. OK, I was really kidding there.

Elbee

I started reading shrink rap when I was just strug...

2010-10-05T21:33:34.569-04:00

I started reading shrink rap when I was just struggling with two hospitalizations a few years ago. Three weeks after my 2nd hospitalization I started grad school. My Psychiatrist wanted to fire me from her practice because I was TOO sick and she wanted me in day treatment. I got support from the disability office of the school. I got accomodations to had in papers late. I used these accomodations a handful of times. I think I was submitted things late no more so than any other student trying to balance other life obligations.
I worked towards a Master's in Social Work. I went to a very clinical/therapy based school. I did reveal my diagnosis to my field supervisors. It was hard, but it was an appropriate thing to do. I got a 4.0 my last semester.
I have my MSW. My mom died the same week I graduated. So I have delayed getting my license. But I do work in the field. BUT, I work as a "peer specialist"
I have a master's degree in social work. But I have to answer to non-clinical people. I am so fustrated. Soon I hope to take and pass my test.... and get a real job...

:P

So yes. You can. Just be careful on who you reveal your diagnosis. People who work in mental health are Sometimes the people who will most likely to prejudge you. Stigma from practioner peers is very very prevalant.

You know what? Diabetes is not the same as bipolar...

2010-10-05T21:23:45.949-04:00

You know what? Diabetes is not the same as bipolar disorder. Disorganized is not the same as bipolar disorder. And ugly is certainly not the same as bipolar disorder.

I get that you're trying to make a point. But you are seriously minimizing the truth and intent behind the question. And I think you know it.

KRJ is not a doctor ,though. I have known doctors ...

2010-10-05T20:29:27.041-04:00

KRJ is not a doctor ,though.
I have known doctors with bipolar as well as many other professionals. I have also known doctors without bipolar but who were nasty and heartless and incompetent. Your diagnosis is not the issue. Your competency is.

I have Bipolar type 1 and was hoping to go to medi...

2010-10-05T15:16:54.513-04:00

I have Bipolar type 1 and was hoping to go to medical school. In my third year at college I totally broke down and failed Chemistry. I retook it and got an A but it proved to be to difficult for me. I still had chem 2 and organic chem to do and my mind just felt like it was melting on all the meds I had to take. I wish I were a success story but I am not.

Well, Bipolar I has never been an impediment to my...

2010-10-05T07:57:25.529-04:00

Well, Bipolar I has never been an impediment to my ability to practice law (except for that 3-week hospitalization for mania with psychotic features). Clearly, medicine is a more demanding field and one must endure the punsihing course of medical school and residency, but anyone who is stable and on minimally-sedating medication, with a history of periods of mood stability (YES, WE DO EXIST) ought to do just fine. And what about unipolar depression? Can't you make a case that that's just as disabling? We don't secondguess alcoholics or drug addicts when they are starting down a career path--society looks the other way. Why should a young adult with bipolar disorder have to put up with such scrutiny?

Prior to the use of antidepressants, there were pe...

2010-10-05T07:37:09.566-04:00

Prior to the use of antidepressants, there were people who were stabilized and maintained on lithium only, and who weren't destabilized by some of the drugs used today to treat the illness. No matter the severity of their episodes, they were able to continue with their education and careers. Those with milder forms of illness would have difficulty, given the amount of time spent in depressive phases.

Comments on Shrink Rap: I Have Bipolar Disorder. Can I be a Doctor?

I am sure the above poster can find something to d...

Depends. Many clinicians explain Bipolar Disorder...

Maybe try veterinary school - not so stressful, vo...

Part II I started my job after taking a 6 wk res...

I started my job after taking a 6 wk research cour...

I am a physician with bipolar disorder. I was onl...

I would tell anyone with this disorder who is cons...

Hi I am a second year resident in General Surgery...

I am a doctor. I want to specialize in surgery. I ...

Just a niggle: actually, Kay Redfield Jamison *is*...

Buy acompliaBuy aciphexMichael Jackson Ben Michael Jackson Bad acappella Michael Jackson Thriller Michael Jackson ABC

As a current medical school applicant, I can add t...

Oh, my, I completely missed the question here! I&...

I don't know what the person asking the questi...

Can you be a doctor and NOT be bipolar?

Thank you for this post! I'm starting medici...

Katie, Didn't mean to be flippant but there is...

In my state you will have to answer if you have be...

Why not? These people did. http://pn.psychiatr...

I started reading shrink rap when I was just strug...

You know what? Diabetes is not the same as bipolar...

KRJ is not a doctor ,though. I have known doctors ...

I have Bipolar type 1 and was hoping to go to medi...

Well, Bipolar I has never been an impediment to my...

Prior to the use of antidepressants, there were pe...

Just a niggle: actually, Kay Redfield Jamison is...

Buy acomplia
Buy aciphex
Michael Jackson Ben
Michael Jackson Bad acappella
Michael Jackson Thriller
Michael Jackson ABC