tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post7154254789770480557..comments2024-03-18T03:28:36.581-04:00Comments on Shrink Rap: Oh To Be Mentally IllUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-51041545757662873802012-09-28T11:32:57.065-04:002012-09-28T11:32:57.065-04:00Is not "medical condition" rather define...Is not "medical condition" rather defined as something outside of the norm?<br />If 56% of people have "a propensity toward" mental illness, then it follows that mental illness (or at least a propensity toward) is normal. <br />With that little % mark, we have entered the magical world of statistic-speak, wherein nearly anything can be both "proved" and "disproved" with various pseudo- representative number sets, and accompanying choice interpretations of data.<br />Attempt to put that 56% propensity into a simple bell <br />shaped curve to define the parameter called normal. Recall that "normal" must include, not exclude, a few outlier points. Here normal is too broad, bell becomes too flattened to be called a bell, and normal cannot be defined at all. Thus if 56% tend toward mental illness, then tendency toward mental illness becomes normal. If the majority of population tends toward mental illness, <br />then mental illness must be a normal part of life.<br /><br />Tell me, has anyone ever been sent away from your place of business with the assurance that they are not mentally diseased, but rather "normal" and therefore do <br />not need your services? <br />It happens in other medical specialty offices, when tests show results within the range of normal, and/or MRI/CT/ultrasound/xray show nothing abnormal. <br />But psyche-normal is not so easily objectively tested, and being subjectively defined, perhaps psyche-normal does not even exist.<br />If I go to my physician suspecting diabetes, and tests show I do not have diabetes, I will be told that, in this particular, I am normal.<br />If I go to my physician suspecting a mental illness, I will automatically be given a Dx of mental illness, because <br />there are no such tests. I will never be told that in this particular, I am normal.<br /> ie:suspecting mental illness IS mental illness. <br />Suspecting diabetes is not diabetes.<br /><br />If there is mentally abnormal, mentally normal must exist. Define either with the concise definitions used for <br />diabetes and then you can reasonably compare mental illness to diabetes. Otherwise I hear only apples-to-oranges psychobabble.<br /><br />So, if "oh to be mentally ill" implies a wish on your part not to be mentally normal, then by definition (or rather by non-definition) your wish is granted. Your chances of being mentally ill are likely better than 55%, while your chances of being mentally normal are exactly the same. <br />Mentally ill (at 56% of population) IS mentally normal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-18678156061675261192012-09-28T11:25:30.091-04:002012-09-28T11:25:30.091-04:00Is not "medical condition" rather define...Is not "medical condition" rather defined as something outside of the norm?<br />If 56% of people have "a propensity toward" mental illness, then it follows that mental illness (or at least a propensity toward) is normal. <br />With that little % mark, we have entered the magical world of statistic-speak, wherein nearly anything can be both "proved" and "disproved" with various pseudo- representative number sets, and accompanying choice interpretations of data.<br />Attempt to put that 56% propensity into a simple bell <br />shaped curve to define the parameter called normal. Recall that "normal" must include, not exclude, a few outlier points. Here normal is too broad, bell becomes too flattened to be called a bell, and normal cannot be defined at all. Thus if 56% tend toward mental illness, then tendency toward mental illness becomes normal. If the majority of population tends toward mental illness, then mental illness must be a normal part of life.<br /><br />Tell me, has anyone ever been sent away from your place of business with the assurance that they are not mentally diseased, but rather "normal" and therefore do <br />not need your services? <br />It happens in other medical specialty offices, when tests show results within the range of normal, and/or MRI/CT/ultrasound/xray show nothing abnormal. <br />But psyche-normal is not so easily objectively tested, and being subjectively defined, perhaps psyche-normal does not even exist.<br /><br />If I go to my physician suspecting diabetes, and tests show I do not have diabetes, I will be told that, in this particular, I am normal.<br />If I go to my physician suspecting a mental illness, I will automatically be given a Dx of mental illness, because <br />there are no such tests. I will never be told that in this particular, I am normal.<br /> ie:suspecting mental illness IS mental illness. Suspecting diabetes is not diabetes.<br /><br />If there is mentally abnormal, mentally normal must exist. Define either with the concise definitions used for diabetes and then you can reasonably compare mental illness to diabetes. Otherwise I hear only apples-to-oranges psychobabble.<br /><br />So, if "oh to be mentally ill" implies a wish on your part not to be mentally normal, then by definition (or rather by non-definition) your wish is granted. Your chances of being mentally ill are likely better than 55%. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-60932242825890960832012-09-25T16:43:08.301-04:002012-09-25T16:43:08.301-04:00From my experience mental health treatment is just...From my experience mental health treatment is just a methodology of waylaying the inevitable! It like a polyp of disambiguation to perform systematic motions that evolve into a higher understanding. I think people should open their eyes and see that people aren't like light bulbs for shedding light on their unamorous lives! Grow up for goodness sake!thedistinctonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-39249600398596429642012-04-08T12:55:56.328-04:002012-04-08T12:55:56.328-04:00I watched a film a while ago called God Grew Tired...I watched a film a while ago called God Grew Tired of Us. It is about a group of boys who went through hell I think its also called the Lost boys of Sudan - it follows their journey and how loving and supportive they are too each other and others when they arrive in the USA. One of the main difficulties they had in adjusting to US/Western life is the isolation involved. One of them ends up in a mental institute as he cannot handle living the isolated life style of the west. I recommend watching it for anyone who doesnt understand mental health issues - I do believe the numbers of people suffering with mental health issues are more in the West due to our lack of community, trust and support of each other.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-36780646821020706052012-04-06T04:32:42.027-04:002012-04-06T04:32:42.027-04:00My definition: "The mind is connected to the ...My definition: "The mind is connected to the body in the same way the feet are connected to the legs. Much like the bones in the feet can break and make it difficult to do that normal stuff people talk about, the brain can break as well. Sometimes it's temporary. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it hangs out in the back of your mind and you get skilled in telling it to shut up. Whatever it is, it sucks and you really need to get it checked out. That goes for kids, too. Kids can have broken brains. Kind of like how you can have a broken arm. It, like, happens. And yeah, it might be your fault. Hey, nobody's perfect. There are worse things. But be more careful with those kids, man. <br /><br />In the wise words of my DBT therapist, 'Teenagers are all personality disordered.' Try to save the Zyprexa for those times they think the TV is telling them to kill themselves. The side effects suck and they might spit them out for that reason. Who wants to gain fifty pounds, sleep 12 hours a day, and have cavities from dry mouth? And Zyprexa is spendy, and your insurance company will fight tooth and nail to not cover it for a minor. You, the therapist, the teachers, and the doctors will tell your kid to suck it up in terms of med side effects, as surely it can't be any worse than taking a Benadryl. Good luck with that, man. <br /><br />Seriously, though, medication is a useful tool in the recovery bit for many people. The four dollar lists at pharmacies are awesome. Don't forget to do some yoga or something, though.<br /><br />It's not all doom and gloom. Heck, your therapist might very well be on medication just like you. And that nurse who takes your blood pressure at the psychiatrist's office? Xanax is his/her friend. I know this because all of my nurse friends tell me about their coworkers.<br /><br />In short, life's a bitch and sometimes your brain breaks. Chances are pretty good it has nothing to do with you being lazy or having a soul that needs to be returned to the creator because it's defective. Sometimes you gotta roll with it. And not be afraid to be feisty when some jerk discriminates you for the mental disorder(s). They're in denial. Laugh at them and walk away." The end. <br /><br />Not the best definition, but it's more or less what I tell my family about the folks I work with and what I do.Sophianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-24652640623111430712012-04-04T07:10:03.166-04:002012-04-04T07:10:03.166-04:00Jane,
You were clear. Maybe that works for you. M...Jane,<br /><br />You were clear. Maybe that works for you. Maybe it work for most people. it probably does.I rely on the grocer to carry to produce that won't poison me. I don't rely on anyone to understand me. That has never worked and I am fine with that after years of experiences that have taught me I am better off keeping myself to myself. I can be self sufficient unless I need an organ transplant. i couldn't do that by myself. I'd probably also need a lift to the hospital.ohnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-64449367445191165802012-04-03T21:13:47.202-04:002012-04-03T21:13:47.202-04:00I think maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't say...I think maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't saying that there are people that are perfect and can be depended on 100% of the time. My point was that we do depend on people all the time, and it is a given that people are fallible. The only thing that is 100% reliable is death and whatever infallible God/s/ess/esses people believe in. I'm saying that people tend to rely on other people with the full knowledge that we will be let down eventually but not all the time. People get let down in therapy. But for the most part, the therapist should be dependable (unless that therapist is getting fired).Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06030949818467743750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-20208982764514950902012-04-03T08:35:59.312-04:002012-04-03T08:35:59.312-04:00Jane,
In an ideal world, you are not wrong. Ideal...Jane,<br /><br />In an ideal world, you are not wrong. Ideally we should be able to rely on a therapist to understand us and on our hair stylist to figure out how to make us look our best. These are all just people and people screw up and let us down for lots of reasons. They also move away, burn out and die. No one ever wakes up thinking their husband or wife is going to die in a car crash on the way home from work that day. Children depend on their parents. Even the best parents can drop dead of sudden heart attacks. Life can be devastating, but you already know that.ohnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-84755068116218105072012-04-02T21:10:21.357-04:002012-04-02T21:10:21.357-04:00...In reading the comments between Oh Said and Sar......In reading the comments between Oh Said and Sarebear I have mixed feelings. Nobody really likes to be dependent or having to rely on someone else. But I actually think that NOT depending on your therapist would defeat the whole point of therapy. You are there to depend on the therapist's good judgment. If you cannot depend on your therapist to have an accurate perception of you, give good guidance, and teach you how to lead a better and more productive life, well then there is no point to the therapeutic relationship. If your therapist doesn't understand you then it's time to get a new one. We all have to depend on different people. We rely on our hair stylist to keep our hair looking good. We rely on the Pharmas to keep producing medicine to treat our illnesses. We rely on our coworkers to do their jobs so that we can do ours. Etc, etc, and so forth. Our whole lives are spent relying on people. No one is totally self sufficient.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06030949818467743750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-86829858123468276202012-04-02T11:46:23.272-04:002012-04-02T11:46:23.272-04:00Sarebear,
I am not telling you how to live your l...Sarebear,<br /><br />I am not telling you how to live your life or what to feel.<br />If you cannot help feeling dependent and feel that you need to feel to feel that way for now, I am not here to judge you. From my experience, it is not about it not being healthy, it is about it not being real and about it not ending very well. Personally, it works better for me not to depend on anyone or anything. I don't expect much and I am not disappointed. I guess that is part of growing older. Pass the prunes.ohnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-67376076816284676562012-04-02T01:58:27.102-04:002012-04-02T01:58:27.102-04:00I apologize for the delay in my posting and most l...I apologize for the delay in my posting and most likely this will not be read but...<br /><br />Simple Citizen - You just posted two of the stereotypical things that people think about the mentally ill. First - "I'd be able to tell" - How? Second - "Go to an ER and see which patients the ER doctors don’t want to deal with." - Please elaborate.<br /><br />Liz - You are discussing two separate issues under the guise of one. The issue of treatment styles has nothing to do with the cause of mental illness. <br /><br />If someone knows of a current widely accepted theory for the cause of mental illness that is not biochemical in nature then I am open to read it.girrl88https://www.blogger.com/profile/02161216125139598646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-65987937226544592382012-04-02T01:57:06.456-04:002012-04-02T01:57:06.456-04:00to "oh..." regarding my dependency on my...to "oh..." regarding my dependency on my therapist, or not wanting to live without having someone who understands me, I'd say the following:<br /><br />I've lived that way before, so it follows that I'm capable of living that way again. However, dependency on the therapist is part of the process, and while I don't consciously seek dependency in any of my relationships, I'll accept it as a by-product of therapy, one that will not always be there as I gain more confidence in myself, as I gain more insight and replace self-destructive beliefs with more productive or healthier ones (not to imply that the therapeutic dependence is destructive).<br /><br />See http://www.afterpsychotherapy.com/emotional-dependency-in-psychotherapy/ for a discussion of therapeutic dependence.<br /><br />I do appreciate your concern that I may be harboring a worldview that could be healthier.Sarebearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09208596053319110470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-37433576177529565232012-03-30T19:16:27.712-04:002012-03-30T19:16:27.712-04:00posted for Sarebear:
It's more than just disa...posted for Sarebear:<br /><br />It's more than just disagreement, Rob, it's a statement that your incessant, repetitive, rigid adherance to a narrow (IMHO, mileage may vary) point of view, that at times almost feels like an automatic response to almost anything that is posted here on certain subjects, tends to reduce your credibility in my eyes. For the reasons I've already mentioned, and again, to reiterate, for emphasis, that it feels like it's always the SAME. <br /> <br />Repetition can be used for emphasis, as I've done here, and perhaps that is what you intend when you put forth your repetitive, exact, rigid views, but it feels (IMHO, etc.) more like a bludgeon as well as a like a record player, skipping back over the same loop of content. More reasons why your credibility isn't high, to me.<br /> <br />Stating that my ability to compose focused or less-focused comments depends on to what degree my mental illnesses are affecting me at that moment may be obvious to some people, but since you don't seem to believe in mental illness, I suspect it means nothing to you at all. Still, just because I may have varying levels of being able to focus more at some times than others, and thus may sometimes or even often not express myself as . . . efficiently or well as I may like, it doesn't mean that my opinion isn't as valid as another.<br /> <br />Your opinion is yours and you've the right to it, as anyone has to theirs. But I do judge how much and to what degree it has credibility for myself, and apparently I felt like expressing my dissatisfaction with your credibility when I posted before. It's just my opinion, about how I feel the way you present yourself and your opinions has affected how I receive what you put out there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-87180558133259240652012-03-30T13:57:56.767-04:002012-03-30T13:57:56.767-04:00girrl88-
i guess the biggest difference, to me, i...girrl88-<br /><br />i guess the biggest difference, to me, is that i believe that just about ANYONE can, with the right treatment (don't read "meds" here), has the potential to become emotionally healthy and psychologically well (and not needing medication). to me, the goal of complete and total recovery is very liberating and motivating. <br /><br />i haven't seen any convincing evidence of the truth of the chemical imbalance theory, either in the research or in my personal experiences. i have had an axis 1 diagnosis for fifteen years and took ineffectual medication for much of that time, so it seems, according to your definition, i'm chronically mentally ill. <br /><br />while my brain hasn't "suddenly" started producing different chemicals, i am not on any medication. i have, with the help of a psychologist and a counselor, started thinking and behaving differently, and that has helped me tremendously. i have several friends who are experiencing a similar benefit to group support, counseling, and healthier eating/more exercise, WITHOUT medication. i have other friends who are on medications, though, and that is a decision they make with their doctor and therapists.<br /><br />i can get my blood sugar checked, to see if it is at a healthy level. i get my thyroid checked periodically to make sure it's doing it's holding up okay after all the lithium i took over the years. if someone can show me concrete evidence that supports the idea that people with depression or bipolar disorder or schizophrenia have a serotonin or dopamine or norepinephrine issue, i'll re-examine my beliefs. <br /><br />until then, i'll try to stay as healthy and well as i can naturally (and maybe i'll even quit smoking someday!)Lizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18354453322985313284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-80901423392236331022012-03-29T22:41:12.731-04:002012-03-29T22:41:12.731-04:00Mental Illness is kind of like pornography - “I kn...Mental Illness is kind of like pornography - “I know it when I see it.” Yes the DSM is faulty, yes the Monoamine theory was incomplete if not completely wrong. Any definition is going to perturb someone because mental illness is defined by the sufferer. It’s like asking people “what is normal?” In order to define mental illness you’d have to define mental health.<br /><br />I know plenty of people who don’t have a DSM-IV diagnosis that certainly don’t meet my personal definition of mental health. That’s because I am not them. What feels like mental wellness to me is not even close to my neighbors definition.<br />Want to know a sad but often reliable way to identify mental illness?<br />Go to an ER and see which patients the ER doctors don’t want to deal with.Simple Citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13100369477704457506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-90097817912976169912012-03-29T19:07:20.792-04:002012-03-29T19:07:20.792-04:00Rob,
B Park knows from the constitution?
Re: C...Rob,<br /><br />B Park knows from the constitution? <br /><br /> Re: Chemical imbalance. I am not certain what causes what I have, but the chemicals I take make me better (or "weller") but mostly just well enough to blend in. I have had several med(chemical) holidays that ended very badly, as in my passport was confiscated at the border--(imagine the hospital psych ward as the entrance to a foreign country). It could be that the chemicals I ingest have caused damage to the parts of my brain that regulate chemicals and it could be mere coincidence that over a period of 30 years my wellness coincides with chemical use. That the chemicals keep me together does not absolutely prove that I started out with an imbalance, but unless you can provide me with a better explanation, I will remain okay with the fuzzy notion of a chemical imbalance. Sometimes it is not about being right or wrong. Not all of life is as black and white as that.oh...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-74078710875040240502012-03-29T16:59:55.168-04:002012-03-29T16:59:55.168-04:00"As far as science is concerned, mental illne..."As far as science is concerned, mental illness is due to a chemical imbalance in the brain."<br /><br />Actually, as far as science is concerned, no chemical imbalances have been detected.<br /><br />Oh... said... Has Brooklyn ratified the constitution yet?rob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-27589890905035763122012-03-29T16:25:43.320-04:002012-03-29T16:25:43.320-04:00Liz - What would you prefer that I call it? Sympto...Liz - What would you prefer that I call it? Symptom management? -- There are some people that will only need symptom management for a short while as their symptoms will only last a short while. Other people will be plagued by their symptoms from the onset throughout their lives and will therefore need lifelong symptom management.<br /><br />It's a half-full, half-empty thing Liz. It's all in how you read it. And just because one can't get well doesn't mean one can't get better. There is a huge difference between the two. <br /><br /> As far as science is concerned, mental illness is due to a chemical imbalance in the brain. Speaking only in terms of those that could definitely be considered the chronically mentally ill, (those that have had diagnosable Axis I mental illnesses for, let's say, 15 or more years) how are you expecting their brains to start producing the correct amount of chemicals when research has shown that it hardly ever happens? If one can't reasonably expect their brains to recover to what is considered a "normal" level of functioning then how can one tell them that they can expect to get well?girrl88https://www.blogger.com/profile/02161216125139598646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-45336658696899905302012-03-29T14:36:05.657-04:002012-03-29T14:36:05.657-04:00Bare arms could get me locked up in certain parts ...Bare arms could get me locked up in certain parts of Brooklyn and a few other hot spots.Oh...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-46085777684740025852012-03-29T14:32:26.125-04:002012-03-29T14:32:26.125-04:00girrl88--
i don't think there is a simple dis...girrl88--<br /><br />i don't think there is a simple distinction between those that have short term and those that have long term mental illness. i think any sort of illness can be improved or exacerbated by the right or wrong form of treatment. i find the simplification of "those that can and those that can't get well" sort of alarming. and i think that a person believing that they CAN'T get well can be a huge hindrance to the healing process.Lizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18354453322985313284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-11781057818944558132012-03-29T12:28:22.930-04:002012-03-29T12:28:22.930-04:00Good points, Oh... said...,
I pretend to know a l...Good points, Oh... said...,<br /><br />I pretend to know a little about the constitution... But I'm not sure the second amendment supports the right to bear grudges, or to grind axes, if one has an axe to grind. It does, however, protect the right to arm bears: I saw it on a t-shirt.rob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-28668438753896239352012-03-29T12:15:36.084-04:002012-03-29T12:15:36.084-04:00Rob,
You have a petard? Lucky son of a gun. I woul...Rob,<br />You have a petard? Lucky son of a gun. I wouldn't mind owning one of those but I think there are restrictions on what people diagnosed with a mental illness have the right to bear. I think we are only allowed grudges and I'd rather not keep a stock of those.Oh...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-50140377682525372562012-03-29T11:22:59.085-04:002012-03-29T11:22:59.085-04:00Good call. I got hoist by my own petard! There is...Good call. I got hoist by my own petard! There is a difference between the expressions, but the argument is the irrelevancy, not the choice of words. Stating that one doesn't take another comment-er seriously is merely another way of stating one doesn't agree. <br /><br />I tried to edit out the first. I should have known the new edit system wouldn't let me dump and re-write!<br /><br />p.s., I miss the word verications. Any chance of going back to them? The 'prove you're not a robot' thing is creepyrob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-63639847354761870172012-03-29T10:35:08.132-04:002012-03-29T10:35:08.132-04:00Sarebear,
I live every day knowing that no one un...Sarebear,<br /><br />I live every day knowing that no one understands me. More people than you imagine live that way. I think it is part of the human condition and not so much to do with any illness or harsh life circumstances. Some people still manage acloseness of sorts with at least one other human, perhaps a partner or a child. Still, even these people will never trull understand the way that you may wish. They will never live inside your skin and you will never live inside their skin. You may try but you will never truly understand them the way they might wish to be understood. We cannot live in the hope that some medical professional will truly understand us. I don't believe that they do and they certainly have less investment in trying than the people in your "real life". Our doctors understand us from a lens that is different than what we may be hoping it were. That said, i am grateful for that fact because to be truly understood by someone I paid or who was paid to understand leaves the ever present understanding on my part that this "understanding" is fleeting and superficial. I probably did at some point in my life, but no longer wish to be understood. It is like wondering what happens to your "self" after death. <br /><br />To Rob: I fail to appreciate the difference between "Anyway."and "In any case". A Harvard English prof would. For our purposes here, it is irrelevant.oh...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-72142804916191939832012-03-29T09:53:23.942-04:002012-03-29T09:53:23.942-04:00"Rob is doing an excellent job of making sure..."Rob is doing an excellent job of making sure I'll never take him seriously."<br /><br />And I have difficulty taking seriously expository writing full of paragraphs beginning with the word "Anyway."<br /><br />In any case, my point, in case anyone hasn't got it yet, is this: Diabetes Mellitus, Type I, is a disease with a well-defined pathophysiology, pathology, treatment, and natural history. That makes it a disease. Mental illnesses are identified as diseases <i>only</i> by analogy to Diabetes Mellitus, Type I.<br /><br />Whales have fins and swim in the water, but that don't make them fish.rob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.com